Ep. 8 - The complexity of trans visibility with Emmett Schelling
#8: This episode’s guest is Emmett Schelling! Emmett (he/him) is the Executive Director of the Transgender Education Network of Texas (TENT), the nation's largest statewide BIPOC trans-led, trans-focused policy organization. Emmett has won a large number of awards for his work, including being named one of Time Magazine’s 100 Most Influential People in the world in 2022.
You can find Emmett on Instagram at @emmett_morales_yoon
Follow the Transgender Education Network of Texas on:
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Links/resources in the episode:
Equality Texas
Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund
Texas Diversity Council
Equality Federation
The Mahogany Project
Time Magazine 100 Most Influential People 2022
Everyday Trans Activism is a production of Parents of Trans Youth, a social impact business providing learning, support, and community to parents and caregivers of transgender, nonbinary, and gender-diverse kids.
Host Mandy Giles (she/her) is the Texas parent of two transgender young adults and a fierce advocate for trans kids, their families, and the transgender community.
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
Mandy: Hey y'all and welcome to Everyday Trans Activism. I am your host, Mandy Giles. My pronouns are she/her, and I am the parent of two transgender young adults, and I'm also the founder of Parents of Trans Youth. Today's guest is Emmett Schelling. Emmett is a titan in the fight for trans equality and trans rights.
He is the Executive Director of Transgender Education Network of Texas, or TENT, the nation's largest statewide BIPOC trans-led, trans-focused policy organization. Emmett has won a large number of awards for his work, including the Equality Texas Monica Roberts Trans Advocacy Award in 2019, the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund's Trans Advocate of the Year Award in 2020, Texas Diversity Council's Annual Trans Advocate of the Year Award in 2022, Equality Federation's Leadership Award In 2022 and was most recently recognized as the Mahogany Project's Man of the Year.
I'm sure I forgot some, but in fact, Emmett has so much influence that he was named one of Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People in the world in 2022. Wow. And so I'm sure we will be touching on that. So, Emmett, thank you so much for talking with me today.
Emmett: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's exciting to see long-term projects come out of what's happening here in our state and seeing families like y'all, like really get creative to create platforms like this, to have accessibility, and have people be able to feel confident to learn and connect without judgment and really learn from people that are experiencing this in their homes and their families. So I just want to thank you so much for that.
Mandy: Oh, well, thank you. If I forgot anything in your introduction, you can introduce yourself however you want to. Do you want to add anything? You, you good?
Mandy: Any more accolades?
Emmett: I probably should mention that I am on the board of directors for Deeds Not Words which is an organization here in Texas that Wendy Davis, Senator Wendy Davis founded. And really focuses on empowering and developing leadership in young women and femme young people through chapters on college campuses across Texas doing work around, informing people about what, what issues are really impacting, harming or helping young women and femmes just develop through the, through the state and through their own leadership. So, um, excited about that and a little heartbroken, right? Because a lot of the work was really abortion forward and obviously we have seen the just continued decimation of that autonomy and ability here through our state legislature.
Mandy: Sure. Well, that sounds like an incredible organization, and I'll be eager to check it out and I'll have all of these any, any resources that we talk about today, I'll definitely include in the show notes, which can be found on my website, parentsoftransyouth.com/podcast.
So Emmett, you are an incredibly public person. You are a leader local, state, national in the trans rights movement. And I'm thinking about visibility, and I'm thinking about that we are coming up on the Transgender Day of Visibility. And I wanted to have a conversation about that with you because I know that the idea of visibility is a whole lot more nuanced than like, Hey, I'm going to put my picture up and, and, you know, come out to these people or these people, whatever.
And so I, I really wanted to hear your thoughts about that and what, I guess there's, there's always a cost of, of being visible and what the price is. And so I wanted to hear your thoughts about that.
Emmett: Thanks for such a thoughtful question. One of the things that I've come to learn, the longer I'm in this work is: the more I know, the less I know. And what I have seen, in talking to so many individuals from my community is just their own perspective, their own worldview when it comes to visibility and how who they are along multiple factors and intersections impact that visibility when we talk about what is the price. You know, we're, we're at a, I think, unprecedented time where trans people in the last decade essentially went from almost invisible, right, in our world to not only hyper-visible, but hyper-visible attached to just intentionally, blatantly, patently false misinformation that vilifies us. That the fear that already exists because we're humans when we don't understand another person's experience or don't understand something like the natural reaction for us as people is that opens a door to let fear in because we're scared of what we don't know as just a human tendency.
And so, so much of the work that we do is based from an education approach of knowing that we have to educate, we have to sometimes like dismantle misinformation, help people unlearn, meet people where they're at to have this broader conversation, I think about like the part of visibility, you know, one of the things that and I don't do so many facilitations for the like Gender 101s anymore, unfortunately, but the statistical feedback that we got some years ago, which was, I think approximately half of the country reported not ever having met a trans person. Not ever, like
Mandy: Knowingly
Emmett: This wasn’t like, do you have somebody actively, personally in your life? Like, this is just, have you met one of us? Uh, and about 50 percent of people said no. And I like laughed a little bit because I thought about just a typical day in my life and all the people that I meet.
Let's say in a non-work setting, right? Like, gotta go get groceries, gotta like, go get gas, gotta go get your car washed, gotta go drop off dry cleaning, all that stuff, right? And, I would joke that like, listen, if I went to the HEB and just, up and down the aisles high-fived everybody and like exclaimed you've met a trans person and you've met a trans person! and you've met a trans person yeah you know uh how skewed sometimes the reality that we know versus the statistical things and I think that's what it comes down to when I think about when I was young, the visibility that I had was cisgender Hilary Swank playing Brandon Teena in Boys Don't Cry.
And don't get me wrong, Hilary, you did an excellent job if you're listening. But, uh, yes, and then, Chaz Bono, Cher's son, came out, and people didn't really, I think, understand, like, even that trans men existed at that point, and Chaz became a punchline. And you went from seeing Cher's son pretty visible to if you think about after the reception of how media and the world welcomed him, so to speak, as he just shared his truth he's not been much in the spotlight, right?
And you think about the elevated access to power, security, all of that, right? That he has, and still clearly doesn't feel comfortable, right? Being visible to the point that he was when he first came out. And I think that's a really real example that people have sort of watched play out if you've, if you've lived long enough, right?
Uh, I speak to so many youths sometimes I
Mandy: Like who? Chaz Bono? Yeah.
Emmett: And then when we talk about the trans movement, we talk about what does it mean to be led and center Black trans women, Black trans femmes, Black trans people, Black folks in America, like what does that look like and why do we do it?
Right? Because we understand that this is like a population that statistically will experience more challenges, and we know that because of the multiple factors that make them whole and make them human and make them who they are. And you think
Mandy: What are those factors? Tell me about those factors and why, it seems to be, I guess, just life is harder. And, and, um, yeah, tell me about that.
Emmett: You know, I think in talking to parents there's this, uh, the pattern, right? And as a dad, I get it. As a dad of a young adult nonbinary kid who's more femme-presenting. I get it. This world is going to be more challenging for them once they stepped out and stepped into their truth. And I think, as parents, right? You'd be hard-pressed to find a parent who says, You know what I want to give my kid? A worse experience in life than what I have had. I would really just like to stick it to them and, you know. No, you hear parents say, I want to raise my kid to have the confidence that like, I didn't have that like now with the wisdom of age, and I look back and say No, you could have been confident. And so how do I like translate that as a parent to encourage my own kid? And will they listen? Like, depending on the age, like, all of the things, yeah, of like, you want to make your kids’ lives safe.
Mandy: Yeah.
Emmett: And have them, avoid deep pain that like you've gone through that sometimes you see your kids heading straight into and you want to stomp the brakes on for them so bad but like you can't and I think that's something of like parents talking to me about this they've wrestled with the guilt because it's not that they didn't want their kid to feel, if anything, these households are households who have clearly like opened and built an honest line of communication with their children to the point where their children are feeling confident to say, Hey, I really want you to know who I am because you love me. And I love you, and I want you to love all of me, and I want you to know who I am, to fully be able to love who I am. And that just parental knowledge, right? Of like, this huge leap that I know that you need to do for yourself to be okay. That they're sharing about who they are as a parent, you know that inevitably there's going to be challenges. But we also know, it doesn't matter what, if your kid's cis or trans, there's always going to be some challenges. But then when you talk about, what does that look like really played out in someone's life?
And we look at just statistically what we know about the systemic oppression of Black Americans. What we know about generational poverty, what we know about redlining, what we know about Jim Crow laws, what we know about, things that are still right in front of our eyes. And our noses, and we've become desensitized to the point where we see another article about law enforcement officer cutting a Black person's life short.
We look at it and our heart hurts, but we've become accustomed to it. And we got to come back from that and remember. So in terms of what we were talking about of what I understand with parents, as they're like going through this process with their kids and then understanding, what does it mean as a reality to have to like live in this country, and navigate it, and navigate its systems and navigate its society, understanding that even though it was built off the backs of oftentimes one's ancestors for free, and the continuation of the way anti-Blackness and discrimination and white supremacy just reverberate throughout our world. And then understanding that transphobia, like, that comes from misogyny. The root cause of misogyny and patriarchy is white supremacy.
Mandy: mm hm Mm
Emmett: It’s not as hard, I think, because people really sometimes struggle with it, and I get it because it feels so overwhelming, right? Like you have the momentum of generational disparity. And then you think about what does that look like for the actual individual who is young, Black, trans. And so what are the things that statistically we know that we know? right down, in, in every sense of the word, right? One of the things that I talk to folks about a lot is that it's not as far of a leap as people want to make in like terms of like the fight that we are fighting as trans folks to just simply have healthcare.
Mandy: Mm hm
Emmett: It's wild! Like everybody who's ever had healthcare understands how healthcare works, and it is very tailored to one's body and one's individual medical needs. And we also know that historically white bodies don't just birth better they're just not better at birthing, like no we know the reason that more maternal mortality in Black birthing folks and Black women is simply because of all of the things, right? that academically was just sort of covered in terms of, like, how does white supremacy show up and how does it manifest in terms of an individual who's just trying to survive? And then when we think about it in the visibility sense, right? What does that mean? For somebody individually to just walk and exist in the world. And it becomes a lot more complicated, and it's not to take the joy out of it, right? Because I think that's the most important part about, I mean, they didn't even do TDOV, really, when I, started this work. Like, uh, it was TDOR, and that was
Mandy: Which is? For people who may not know, what is that? Mm.
Emmett: Trans Day of Remembrance is the one day, that collectively, across the nation, organizing is happening on the local level by trans orgs, hopefully, to celebrate the members in our community whose lives were cut way too short by violence.
Emmett: And the fact that that's also a reality of our community, that we need that particular day. And that was really the only day, right? That was like this collective gathering of our people in coordination. To see TDOV now come in, right? And to see people really I've seen that evolve of people posting pictures, of like times that were special to them in their journey, uh, talking about what visibility means to them personally. I think that's more important than any organizations. Like messaging about it is like taking the time and, reading it, reading what, individual trans people are saying, because I and no one else should ever claim that they can just represent the whole community.
That's not the way it goes. so the importance, right, for people to have, that personal ecosphere of like community and getting to know people the same way that we do everybody else.
Mandy: on a very human level. And Hey, these are the, the, the movies that I like. Here's what I like to go see. And, yeah, let's go get breakfast. Oh, you like French toast.
Emmett: Neil and I, the briskets we like to smoke, you know.
Mandy: There you go. Barbecue.
Emmett: Very easy connection. Yeah.
Mandy: Um, yeah, exactly. I think, Yeah, and I think that's coming from a cisgender person to be able to see, um, that side of the visibility, I think, is very helpful to see the very individual, humanizing stories because, you know, in the same vein, same, I think, or somewhere around the same age, I don't know. But, the, the same thing, the, what I saw, and what I knew of trans people. Oh my gosh, okay, never mind, I'm so sorry, I'm just so much further along than you are. Okay.
Emmett: Ha ha ha ha
Mandy: What I saw was Boys Don't Cry, The Crying Game, which was like, Oh,
Emmett: I forgot about The Crying Game. Oh.
Mandy: And then everything that came after that with Ace Ventura and everything that, that I think, my gosh, I think that probably formed a generation of, “This is the reaction that Is that you need to have when confronted with a transgender person.” Um, and we don't need to go down that road.
Emmett: about it in our Trans 101s,
Mandy: Oh,
Emmett: I think for our gender 101s, uh, in the way, and I think this is something where people really do need to understand, right? The uniqueness of an organization that is trans-led and trans-focused, because you don't have other agendas, you. have your constituents who are also yourselves, and who's going to work harder, you know, and understand more, right? And have skin in the game. Let's just be real. Like, and so the thoughtfulness, the intention, the creativity, right? That those situations, often this is not, again, exclusive to, like, trans movement or organizing, but, you see that, time and time again throughout history and in present day, is the people, who are being impacted need really be the ones also, informing in this deeper sense, because there is that nuance, when it comes to Gender 101, where we unpack with the audience, examples, and we open it up, for people to not feel ashamed. And ask them, like, give me examples, right? And they say, Ace Ventura, right? Like, didn't even think about it, being like, I just thought it was funny, Jim Carrey's stupid, right? Like, Mrs. Doubtfire. Like, so many, To Wong Foo, like, there's so many movies, The Crying Game, that's probably its own episode.
Mandy: Yeah.
Emmett: but, uh, you know, so many times that people had already, in terms of, like, that invisibility I talk about, of, like, us looking on the past now. You form your worldview by what you consume.
Mandy: Sure.
Emmett: And so when we were presented as a punchline and we were presented as a joke to the point where there were entire movies, multi-millions of dollars went into creating and executing a movie that made trans humanity a punchy, like, just plotline.
Mandy: Yeah, a joke. Yeah, that, you know, I, and I think of that, character Pat on, on Saturday Night Live.
Emmett: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, It's Pat, yeah.
Mandy: And you know, I'll have to say when, in my younger days, when I saw that, I was like, Oh, that's so funny. Look at all these people trying to figure out, you know, what gender Pat is, whatever. And then, I watched it with one of my kids thinking like, Oh, look, this is going to be so funny. And then we were probably five seconds into it. And I thought, this, this is not funny. And I could see it through their eyes. That was a painful way for both of us, especially my kid to, for me to learn a lesson, but I'm glad that you do what you do and open that floor to ask those questions and challenge those assumptions.
And the, like you said, the baggage that like, Oh, ha ha, yes, this was so funny, but it's not so funny now because I have that knowledge. and you know, it's amazing with humor. I posted a reel on Instagram about Pat and that reel got more attention on both sides than anything I've ever done. People who were like, yeah, that this is a terrible thing. And people were like, who are you to tell me what's funny and what's not? So yeah, which is that maybe that's a whole other episode too, but yeah, comedy and humor punching up and punching down.
Um, so I think that is important to have the avenues to be able to learn from people who are visible like you, and I appreciate your generous, information and the grace that you have to be able to let us in and give us a window and let us learn.
And that's really important. In fact, that was, I think, maybe how I first met you. Neil and I went to a Gender 101 presentation years ago. And we were like, Oh, Emmett, he knows everything. We need to know him.
Emmett: Oh, so far from it. It takes us back to right at the beginning of a conversation, right? Of what I've learned about the more I know, the less I know.
Mandy: yeah. Well, do you want to touch on the visibility in a, in a different way, in a very personal way, if you can talk about that with the Time article and being gosh, a national, international stage, platform for you and like, yay, yay you, and I am sure that carried a huge cost. And are you comfortable talking about that?
Emmett: Yeah. I think for most people it would probably be a little shocking. If they only met me in a workspace. But, uh, I'm a pretty heavy introvert.
Mandy: What? No. Okay. Okay. I'll let you, I'll let you have that.
Emmett: I function, obviously. Um, but why I named that I think was, there's a major sort of part in my own experience with the Time 100 announcement, was just as somebody who, would prefer to just stay invisible and do my work.
You know, that obviously is not how I'm going to fulfill my responsibilities of my job. and so it was, and I really feel like it's still a little surreal. I joke a lot about it. You know, like when it comes up with my family, like, um, even being on this list, I, I probably couldn't get like, us moved up on the list at Carrabba's down the street. With my, like, influence. So like, you know,
Mandy: Moved to the front of the car wash line.
Emmett: Yeah, yeah, that's not going to happen, especially with the nice days Houston's had lately. But you know, the other thing that happened at the same time that Time Magazine announced the list for 2022 was Uvalde's shooting happened and oh, it seems ironic right now, right?
How our legislators don't, won't even really name the tragedy that happened, that the state has still yet to, like, address, even though we're a state with one of the highest mass shootings. And the new tactic of anti-trans folks has been to distort and purposely intentionally misinform the public that these shooters are under the trans umbrella.
Mandy: Is it to connect it with violence and mental illness and perpetuate that myth?
Emmett: It's to perpetuate that trans people, you know, on one side of the mouth is trans people don't exist. On the other side of the mouth is trans people exist and they have mental health problems. And I think anybody would probably have some struggles and challenges with their mental and emotional, like, health if they were, like, facing state-sanctioned violence. When we hit 2025 from HERO in 2015, a solid decade of this state and the elected officials that are supposed to be doing their job and still have not fixed the grid, have still not addressed like the crisis in our public schools instead want to move to take our tax money and fund private schools for the selection of at will. I just wish that we'd stop with the nonsense, let's like look at what has happened. The fact that like Uvalde happened and that instead of, actually tackling how we keep our kids safe. I can't imagine, like, my mom, when I was little, when she sent me off to kindergarten, it still really sticks out in my mind, because I, like, we lived in, like, a town of five people, surrounded by corn, and, I'd never seen her like that, anxious.
And like, worried, And I understand, right? As an adult, and as a parent now, All of the emotions, maybe that she could've been experiencing at that time as you watch your baby enter that, journey, and the momentum just picks up once they step foot for the first time in that school, they're off.
And all of the fears and the hopes, they're there. And she didn't have to worry about me being gunned down in school. That's a real issue for parents right now that they're talking about in their homes. Bulletproof backpacks? I'm sorry!
Mandy: It is unfathomable. And yet it is. Um,
Emmett: But people are still listening to these same folks talk about how much they care about children as they strip healthcare away from children.
Mandy: Mm-Hmm.
Emmett: Because not just trans kids were affected, as we know. Like, when those doctors vacated and the children's hospitals just like decided to stop talking to families without any notice, kids that were getting cancer care were calling TENT!
Mandy: Oh my gosh.
Emmett: Asking us because they were frantic, because they had not had communication with the children's hospital. Who then also allowed a leak of private personal information by someone who, like, we characterize as a whistleblower. Hold on. A whistleblower is somebody who, despite the powers that be, takes a step of courage and integrity to do the right thing for the greater good.
Mandy: Right. I'm sure that, yeah. He thought he was a whistleblower.
Emmett: Was not.
Mandy: No, not at all.
Emmett: I don't think he even thought that. Because like, as who he is, right?
Mandy: Yeah.
Emmett: I have so many friends that decided they didn't love themselves enough and went to med school. Right? So like, they have a fundamental understanding, right, of what they've signed up for and now, you know, we're hitting an age where I look around and I go, well, maybe I didn't love myself enough to go to med school because, uh, they're doing okay, and I'm over here suffering at the nonprofit as I smile through my tears, right?
But there's a fundamental understanding, right, that's deeper than like a lay person like you or I has about the importance of securing patient information, the importance of HIPAA, the importance of the Hippocratic Oath.
Mandy: hmm.
Emmett: Do no harm.
Mandy: It was a horrible, horrible betrayal.
Emmett: And you are a doctor, and you are ignoring factual, medical, peer-reviewed, empirical information that has informed the medical community on this particular health issue.
Emmett: So, to me, no, he didn't think he was a whistleblower. There's no integrity in anything that he did, and there's no integrity in what is happening as we watch what has happened. And the same people still telling us they care about kids? I mean, that enough? Yeah, that enough, I think. We just need to listen to what they're saying and watch what they're doing. If more people did that, the work that we have would lessen.
Mandy: hmm. Mm.
Emmett: Because they're already saying the thing. The cruelty's been the point. I've been telling people that since 2017.
Mandy: Yeah.
Emmett: It still is. That hasn't changed.
Mandy: So what do we do? People ask me that all the time. what can we do? And, and as parents and well, the parents in, in Texas right now, that, that, that's a whole other subject because, they're basically - parents of trans minors are underground, because they're either terrified of being targeted by our government, state government, or they're part of one of the, how many ever lawsuits there are now and, and are not able to speak or act out. It's hard because again, it's that visibility issue. Now, of course, it's a very different visibility issue. And I, I want to acknowledge that for, you know, cisgender parents versus transgender people.
And in a way, it's still all connected. and like you said, the cruelty is the point that it's the catch-22 that I have gone to the Department of family protective services to comment and say, listen, fuckers, you are still, you still have this directive and you haven't said anything and guess why I'm the only parent here. Because it's not safe for anybody because of this thing.
Emmett: So what do we do? Right?
Mandy: It gets my blood boiling.
Emmett: Yeah.
Mandy: What's the answer? Emmett, tell us, tell us what to do.
Emmett: Lord, I wish. Uh, I can tell you, though, there are steps, there are actions we can take, and I also, right, understand people are just trying to live their lives. I know how our laundry piles up, and time is precious, I think it's dependent, on the individual of the commodity you have.
One of the things that TENT went through, was discrimination and just trying to like find a CPA and trying to find, you know, where we had firms be like, Oh, yeah, like, where we like, sort of describe the scope of work and da da da, and this was like, coming from our CFO, our fractional CFO. And so wasn't coming from a TENT email necessarily. And then when they got the understanding of who the client was all of a sudden, they were like busy, you know.
Mandy: We cannot take you on as a client. Yeah.
Emmett: You know when I think about parents I think about our cis counterparts like those high-level skills if you have them and you can like support and help and build those within like leadership that's running these local organizations, right?
Just the, the knowledge is so beneficial because there's 20 other steps before we even find somebody who is willing to do it for pay. So like in understanding, right. Trans-led orgs get four cents to every hundred dollars that comes into LGBTQ funding.
Mandy: Which is already low when you think about the percentage of all charitable dollars.
Emmett: You think about the fight that is around us and you go, what? If you have the resources become a sustainable donor to a trans-led org. That, like, you believe in their work, that you're connected with their work. If you have the ability to go testify, testify.
I think right here and now, local elections, more important than what we've ever seen. If you are somebody who has the skills to run for school boards, run. We need sane people helping our schools. If you have an education background, if you have an administration background, if you have a public policy background, go, run for your local offices.
One thing that we know, that we know, that we know, is that the reason grassroots organizing is, referred around and the effectiveness of it is because of the granular, is the local, presence, is the, like, understanding that is each other's neighbor. We understand the challenges that, like, our families uniquely face, that are gonna differ from district to district, are gonna differ from state to state, from region to region, and, right now we see, I think, is this, understandable exhaustion from engaging in a system that's working exactly perfectly as it was designed. And so when we know that, then like, what are the steps we can take to interrupt the functionality of a system that's harming us?
Mandy: Mm.
Emmett: And one of the ways that, like, I really encourage people is if you have these backgrounds, like, I'm not telling everybody to go run for office, cause lord help me, like, some people do, and I'm like, no, no, don't do that, don't do that,
Mandy: You have other skills.
Emmett: Yeah, exactly, that you can plug in in more effective ways, and I think that's the last thing that is the most important thing for everybody. As an individual, you know what you have to offer and support that you could give. You know if, like, you know a thing or two about education. Because the people right now don't seem like they do a whole whole lot, right? So like what does it mean to take back, especially on the local level, to take back our fucking communities?
These people are coming into these school districts, they don't even have children sometimes. They're not from the school district, they're not from the area, sometimes they're not even from the state, and they're sucking all the air out of the room and the parents of the kids that actually go to those schools are getting caught in the crossfire being suppressed from being heard because we have wackadoodles coming in, looking for a fight at the school boards, when you unpack that, how gross is that?
That adults are putting their time to travel to a school district they have no attachment to to traumatize the kids that are sitting there watching the adults trying to figure out where the adults in the room are.
Mandy: Yeah. it's part of this whole machine of taking over education and the white Christian nationalists. And like you said, the machine and the systems are working the way they were designed to, I guess, if that's kind of what you were saying. And so that's where the disruption needs to happen. yeah, that's terrifying. Hearing some of that rhetoric of literally taking over, what is it? The education, the media, the politics, or whatever those horrible agenda, literal agendas are.
Like I said, it's the, the kids. The kids are the ones that suffer and the adults are just playing their games with all their, their special, conservative-backed money, blah, blah, blah. And the kids are suffering.
Emmett: People like to throw around words like freedom, liberty. How, when you really unpack it, when you step back, how does freedom and liberty fit into that situation? Because I can't find it. And that's, you know, for me, what I encourage people of, like, I can give you some information, but what I really want to do is encourage you to think for yourself. To look and examine. To keep your eyes open. To, like, hear what people are saying versus what they're doing.
And then act accordingly. I'm not here to convince you. I'm here to say, hey, I trust you to be smart enough to look at it and make that decision on your own based on like, the things you're telling me are important to you. Freedom. Liberty. Local control. All of the stuff, right, that we know in Texas is fundamentally important to us, to our bones, and that's part of what, like, makes us stay in this stupid state, even with what's going on, is this love, is a deeper love for our, our state, our community, and each other.
And that's really, I think, in terms of a call to action. Examine things. Don't just, accept them, whether it's from me or anybody else. Use your critical thinking. Challenge what goes against, your gut when you're reading things of, this doesn't seem right.
Mandy: Yeah.
Emmett: And make those decisions, and then follow up with the actions accordingly to respond to what you see, what you see. And I think that's the way we make the change.
Mandy: Mm-Hmm.
Emmett: We have to be more conscious of not letting ourselves be fooled of not actually hearing what they're saying versus examining what they're doing.
Mandy: Kind of taking it back to this misinformation that's out there and sometimes it's hard when, say, a major national newspaper publishes a giant article focusing on some, just misinformation and, and lies and misleading to be able to say, now, yeah, to take that critical thinking and say, now, is that really what's going on here?
And I like the idea of taking what you can do - like not everybody can run for school board and or should. What is that quote? I think it might be attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt. Do what you can, with what you have, where you are and yeah, not everybody can, can make it to the Capitol to go testify or, or take time off of work.
Emmett: People shouldn't beat themselves up about it.
Mandy: Yeah. Or if they have that pile of laundry, it's okay to, to do that pile of laundry and take care of your soul. And maybe what you can do that day is write an email to your legislator, or to the school board member or to the editor of the New York Times and say, listen, jackass.
I don't want to take up too much more of your time. So let's end on a hopeful note. That is a hopeful note, but where do you, where do you find this is probably, you probably get this question all the time. Where do you find hope?
Emmett: Oh.
Mandy: What keeps you going?
Emmett: Oh.
Mandy: Oh, hope.
Emmett: Uh, I mean,
Mandy: Hopey changey.
Emmett: I find hope everywhere.
Mandy: Good.
Emmett: It's the fundamental driver that still keeps me in this work. I think if people don't see hope, it's time, it's time to take a step back, and the work will be here when you're, when you're okay to step back in because sacrificing your hope to do work that requires deep hope and belief in the good and humanity and the intrinsically just shared understanding of that humanity.
I see hope all the time. I can only speak for myself in this, I do the best I can. I believe most people do. And I also know that like trans people need us to do better. So I'm here to encourage people on that. But, I see hope all the time.
We have a young staff and let me tell you, the youths, uh, we don't have to worry. The kids are going to be okay. They are smarter than I ever was at that age. Having an existence that has only been an immediate connection to Google, and also me understanding and you understanding that while Google can answer a lot. Well, youths, you don't know everything. So maybe there's some, like, things that, like the importance, where I talk about, like, the intergenerational structure and in terms of, and just the only thing I can control is, like, TENT's structure.
Emmett: And, uh, you know, I find hope in that, that like we have built this container that's incubating and developing leadership and mechanical skills, while also supporting and understanding in a deep and personal way. What does this mean for the ask that we're making? This work is hard. I tell staff, like, all the time, TENT is a serious organization.
And I take the charge of responsibility and commitment to service and stewardship of the like, trust that our people have for our people and our funders and our supporters have given and invested in us. And it's just as important for them to understand that this is service. This is serving our people, which means, as our director of programs, Atlantis Narcisse, likes to say, uh, it's, you got to take the me out and replace it with the we. And this is “we work” kind of stuff. This is collective. We, necessity of perspective and hearing their like creativity. And even sometimes like these conversations were like the challenge of like, just having a space to have this, like, very policy-driven conversation that doesn't erase their humanity and like allows them to like understand strategizing, understand employing like the right tactics and understand how do we deliver a message so people connect and understand, and it helps, right? There has to be an actionable objective.
And we also have to understand that we stand on the shoulders of giants, of so many people that built the path to TENT being where it is now. That we've lost.
Mandy: Mm hmm.
Emmett: That as history and time went on, we're not aware of, of the contributions of an organization like TENT. Next year will be on its oh, 15 years.
Mandy: Really?
Emmett: And that is almost unheard of. And I've been so grateful and lucky and humbled by the investment, externally and from my staff to build this anomaly sort of powerhouse in the country.
Mandy: Mm hmm.
Emmett: And for it, I think, importantly, to like, be in Texas. That gives me hope so many things, I think, my own kid, seeing their, like, journey, knowing that the young people that I meet, they see their futures wide open, and they haven't let cruelty and misinformation and this continual, like, push to, like, erase their very existence. By and large, they haven't let all of that rob them from an innate expectation that they deserve to have these wide, big, bright futures.
And I think that's the thing, right? Is that when I think about TENT's work, like the policy, the education, the community, all of that, right? In the larger picture, what we're doing is we're working to achieve a better lived reality the same way that parents do for their kids. Why do we work all these stupid hours? Why do we juggle 50 things at a time and still like at the end of the day go to bed and feel good because we know what we're trying to achieve and the importance of it of and supporting, your kids to know that they have a big, bright future wide open ahead of them. And I think for TENT, is to change not only the narrative for trans kids, from my generation to hear like all of these terrible statistics about what my reality would be and shifting that to them understanding that the world is wide open for however they, um, need to exist in it authentically, fully, and safe and supported.
And that to me, like, at the end of the day, you know, is the hope, is the driver for the work that we do that surpasses, to me, the policy, the legislative fights, education, all of that, and honors the shoulders that we stand on in Monica Roberts and Lauryn Farris and Lisa Sheps and so many other folks, right? That built this path and so many other people that are investing in us and we're watching things change despite everything.
Mandy: Uh,
Emmett: I hope people have hope in that.
Mandy: Your words of, of hope are just washing over me. I just feel this, this peace.
I'm, I'm so glad that you have that outlook and that's what drives you and what drives TENT. I just got a message from a mom this morning who said, I grieve for the future for my child and that just about broke my heart because yes, as we've talked about, it is scary and it's that fear for all sorts of reasons.
And to, to keep doing the work, to keep doing the parenting, to exist in this, this world, you have to have that hope and that joy for the future. And to, to believe that, that yeah. that your children and we all have these wide open spaces in which to live our futures. And I think that, oh, that's so good to keep in mind.
And I think that's a good, a good way to end our time together because then I'm going to go cry after this because it's so beautiful. So thank you so, so much for your time today. You are so wise, and you just have wonderful, just wisdom and experience. And I'm so glad that you have shared that today.
So where would you like people to go? What do you want them to do? How can they find you if you want them to find you? Where do you want to send people?
Emmett: Well, my comms department would be very mad if I didn't let folks know. It's very easy. All of our handles from Facebook to IG to I don't know, whatever Elon Musk has ruined that used to be Twitter.
Mandy: Twitter, X
Emmett: Um, yeah, is, @transtexas. Texas is spelled out. And, find us on social media, for me, I don't even know my IG handle, I want to say it is, I'm at Morales Yoon. Don't expect too much if you do follow me. It's mostly me posting pictures of my dog on stories. So it's often really disappointing for people who think like, I'm gonna like be, and I'm like, no. I can barely use
Mandy: the humanizing your dog, you're hanging out with your dog.
Emmett: You know, sometimes my kid has to, like, help me log on.
Mandy: Oh, I
Emmett: Like when they do the updates, like, they have to be like, Here, Dad. Here's how to not post a really unattractive, like, selfie of yourself without realizing it. And I'm like, this is the kind of information Dad needs. Thank you.
Mandy: Exactly, exactly, that these kids are good for something, I think. okay, so listener, if you want to show gratitude for Emmett and his work, then please go to transtexas.org. Is that it? Yeah. Anyway. Yes. Go there.
Mandy: Thank you. Donate to the Transgender Education Network of Texas. It's an extraordinary organization.
They're doing incredible work in Texas and, and they're an inspiration to, to everybody around the country even, and as a wonderful model of a trans-led, trans-focused organization. So again, Emmett, thank you. Thank you for, for you, for what you do, and thank you for your time today. All right.
Emmett: Of course, it was an honor. Thank you so much for having me, Mandy.
Mandy: I'll see you soon.